Xruns with Windows VSTs

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Dragonflag
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Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby Dragonflag » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:33 pm

Hi. I'm a noob when it comes to Linux audio and I could really use some help eliminating Xruns. I have tried searching for this topic but haven't had much luck.

The only issue I have right now is with Windows VST's (some of which I really need), both 32 and 64 bit. When I load one in Carla, it immediately causes a lot of Xruns and keeps doing so, no matter how light or heavy they are (or how much DSP load they cause). All the Linux native plugins work just fine, no Xruns. Could someone point me to some things I might attempt? I'm pretty much stumped. I have tried increasing buffer size and periods/buffer and it seems to lower the xruns a little, but doesn't eliminate them. Even with settings that cause unusable latency I still get xruns.

My audio interface is Behringer UMC204HD. I'm running a Kubuntu with lowlatency kernel and I've done all the preparations for doing serious audio work.

I would appreciate any help.

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troathscream
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby troathscream » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:58 am

From synaptic package manager install Festige, works great for me. I to Keep having Xruns with Addictive drums in Carla, if i use Festige i have none!

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mk1967
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby mk1967 » Sat May 19, 2018 5:41 pm

I have made very good experiences with AVLinux 2017 and 2018 http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/ and Windows VSTs using Carla :!:

asbak
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby asbak » Sun May 20, 2018 8:29 am

Users have different requirements.

- For many hobbyists and dabblers, having the occasional xrun whilst running at high audio latencies is a win & a result. For them, this means that things are "working".

- For musicians who want instruments & fx to work w. low latencies and who may want to or need to play live, having constant xruns and crashes makes things practically useless.

The fact is that even if one can get a Windows VST to sort of behave under Linux, it's still going to be a bit ropey compared to 99.9% of the native Linux VSTs, as any programmer of such VST's will attest. The Doze VSTs are more likely to crash, more likely to xrun and no magic formulas, fixes, software and lipstick on a pig can or will resolve that.

- If the idea is to just play around and marvel at how things can be made to sort of and almost work, then there are all sorts of methods to get the Win VSTs playing on Linux.

- If the idea is to have a reasonably solid, reliable and relatively trouble-free experience at low latencies then run Windows VSTs on Windows OS.

The usual suspects will of course protest my brutally accurate and realistic summation of the ultimate truth for Windows VSTs on Linux but there you go. Some folks are hopeless romantics and optimists. :mrgreen:

Cue the "success stories" .........

rghvdberg
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby rghvdberg » Sun May 20, 2018 12:04 pm

Asbak, please stop making sense! ;-)

rghvdberg
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby rghvdberg » Sun May 20, 2018 12:09 pm

Oh, and maybe, just maybe a newer wine version will help.
Look up winehq ppa (let's just assume you use Ubuntu)

Edit : yes you do (kubuntu)

Jack Winter
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby Jack Winter » Sun May 20, 2018 12:37 pm

Just an observation. If the plugin runs at all, it seems ok at high latency, no xruns. The problem with xruns are most likely to occur at low latency and while monitoring through fx. IMO, you can most likely mix with windows vsts at a higher buffersize without any real problems at all. Of course, ymmw, depending on your hardware, software installation, DAW, plugins in use, etc... :)
Reaper/KDE/Archlinux. i7-2600k/16GB + i7-4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, WA273-EQ, 2 x WA-412, ADL-600, Tegeler TRC, etc 8) For REAPER on Linux information: https://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/REAPER_for_Linux

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tramp
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby tramp » Sun May 20, 2018 3:44 pm

asbak wrote:Users have different requirements.

- For many hobbyists and dabblers, having the occasional xrun whilst running at high audio latencies is a win & a result. For them, this means that things are "working".

- For musicians who want instruments & fx to work w. low latencies and who may want to or need to play live, having constant xruns and crashes makes things practically useless.

The fact is that even if one can get a Windows VST to sort of behave under Linux, it's still going to be a bit ropey compared to 99.9% of the native Linux VSTs, as any programmer of such VST's will attest. The Doze VSTs are more likely to crash, more likely to xrun and no magic formulas, fixes, software and lipstick on a pig can or will resolve that.

- If the idea is to just play around and marvel at how things can be made to sort of and almost work, then there are all sorts of methods to get the Win VSTs playing on Linux.

- If the idea is to have a reasonably solid, reliable and relatively trouble-free experience at low latencies then run Windows VSTs on Windows OS.

The usual suspects will of course protest my brutally accurate and realistic summation of the ultimate truth for Windows VSTs on Linux but there you go. Some folks are hopeless romantics and optimists. :mrgreen:

Cue the "success stories" .........


You sum it up really nicely. :!:

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protozone
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby protozone » Tue May 22, 2018 9:30 pm

If you are using Cockos REAPER, you can get some better performance by carefully examining ALL of the REAPER preferences and making some decent changes.

For example, disable soundcard inputs if you don't need them. Disable RMS metering if you don't need it. Set peak files to be stored in RAM, and set the CPU scheduling (in both sections) to "Aggressive" and of the "Realtime" type. Those are some of the biggest tweaks to do.

Also, in /etc/fstab, add the "noatime" option so that you aren't wasting diskdrive I/O on "last time file access logging" which isn't needed most of the time by anyone nor anything.

ubuntuuser
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby ubuntuuser » Wed May 23, 2018 5:54 am

I've been doing quite a bit of testing with LinVst and various low latency rt kernels on Debian and Ubuntu with various hardware from dual core to i7's with various daws.

Linux Reaper has anticipative fx features which seem to make a difference from the results that I've seen.

I can get 64 samples at 96khz with my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 pci card (not pci-e) with Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 and the M-Audio asio driver and my i7.

On Linux (Debian/Ubuntu) with a realtime kernel I can get 64 samples at 96khz with my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 pci card with no xruns.

My M-Audio Audiophile 2496 pci card (not pci-e) can not get as good of a latency as my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 pci card, so that's due to a hardware difference with the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 pci card having a weaker 96khz response.

USB devices would be different to pci cards and even pci cards have differences as noted above with the differences between 2 M-Audio pci cards.

There are so many variables with the hardware, wine, the wrapper and Linux thread priorities etc etc that results can vary but in general rt/low latency kernels can help and Linux Reaper has features that can help and LinVst tries to do some realtime as well but the hardware/kernel can make a difference as well.

So I think to get a low latency setup, quite a bit of experimenting is needed and things need to be tweaked to the hardware as well and with all of the variables involved, some setups/hardware might just happen to produce better results than some other setups.

Everything I've said above just applies to what I was using and another setup might be different.

Ubuntu rt kernel with M-Audio Revolution 7.1 pci and my i7 and LinVst and Linux Reaper with a 10 track project (using the Windows Cobalt vst synth on each track) at 96khz 1.3ms latency (64 samples) with no xruns while playing.

It's the Ubuntu rt kernel I mention at viewtopic.php?f=19&p=93217#p93217 used with Ubuntu Studio 18.04


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protozone
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Re: Xruns with Windows VSTs

Postby protozone » Thu May 24, 2018 1:32 am

ubuntuuser wrote:I've been doing quite a bit of testing with LinVst and various low latency rt kernels on Debian and Ubuntu with various hardware from dual core to i7's with various daws....

...Ubuntu rt kernel with M-Audio Revolution 7.1 pci and my i7 and LinVst and Linux Reaper with a 10 track project (using the Windows Cobalt vst synth on each track) at 96khz 1.3ms latency (64 samples) with no xruns while playing.

It's the Ubuntu rt kernel I mention at viewtopic.php?f=19&p=93217#p93217 used with Ubuntu Studio 18.04


Hey, thanks so much for that info! I hadn't been able to find that out till you explained it.
I will have to try that out eventually. I used to use a lot of 'buntus with low-latency, but I hadn't been able to yet try an RT kernel. What you did seems to make sense. I'm currently using MX Linux 17 with an RT, but I had slightly better results with low-latency kernel added to an older Xubuntu.


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